• Mr Unwin, it's really an honour to be speaking with you. Fulling Mill is the World Number one producer of top quality fishing flies since the 1930s. You main manufacturing operation is in kenya, is that correct?
Yes, our main manufacturing is in Kenya. The industry there was started by my old friend Denis Whetham in 1932. He helped my father and me enormously in the early days of our factory (Unwin & Sons) and our UK company (Fulling Mill). Sadly Denis died a couple of years ago at the ripe old age of 90. From the outset Denis always wanted to improve the quality of commercial flies. The baton was taken up by my father, Andy Unwin, when he retired from the British army in Kenya, and soon after that I set up Fulling Mill to bring really top quality flies to the public, firstly in UK, then Europe and the rest of the world. Fulling Mill bought Unwin & Sons from my father, then built a brand new factory in Kenya where we have around 300 fly dressers producing flies that I am proud to fish with. At Fulling Mill we are all keen fly fishers and have no interest in making or selling anything that we would not want to use ourselves.

• Your headquarter is in Salfords, Surrey (UK). Is the location in the UK not too far from the manufacturing plant? In any case, it seems it works very well and it's just out of surprise that I ask that...
Well, our fly tying factory is about 10,000 km away, right on the equator. Our rods come from even further away, along with hooks, tippet and so on! The tying materials we use come from pretty much every corner of the world. At our headquarters, we hold substantial stocks of all our products including flies, and also all the raw materials required by our factory in Kenya.

• How many people work there and how long does it takes to train a new employee in fly tying?
In UK there are just 8 of us. Our subsidiary company in USA (Fulling Mill Fly Fishing llc) has a team of 4 or 5 people. At our fly factory in Kenya we employ 300 people. Training of fly dressers is ongoing. To get somebody to a stage where he or she is able to tie simple production flies generally takes about 3 months, but the training program is ongoing leading eventually to some tyers reaching exceptional skills and ability and able to tie the most complicated and difficult patterns. We receive applications for employment from so-called trained fly dressers, but they always have to undergo our training before we allow them to start producing flies for sale.

• As a manufacturer and distributor you sell through a worldwide network of dealers and one cannot overlook a major distributor like Orvis. Is Orvis your biggest dealer?
We custom tie for many companies. We have a close relationship with some very large companies around the world and count many top brands amogst our customer base. We also supply flies under our own brand throughout the world, and it is a brand that is proving very popular and succesful.

• Who are your close competitors?
We tend to concentrate upon of business rather than worry too much about other companies. There are many fly manufacturers in the world, but we are probably the only one who actually owns our own factory 100%. We don’t buy in from other factories; what we sell is what we proudly make ourselves.

• You were recently at the first Tackle Trade World Fair in Amsterdam (9-11 August 2008), a new kind of strictly trade-only event with more than 130 exhibitors from over 30 countries . Was it a profitable moment? Would you recommend it to other players in the fishing tackle business?
Whether to exhibit or not to exhibit at a trade show is ultimately down to each individual buisiness. Our experience of the organisers of the TTW Fair is that they run a very good exhibition and are uniquely positioned to ensure visitor numbers. We were not let down, and the show was a success for us.

• I noticed (correct me if I am wrong) that the major players like Shimano, Bradley and Co, Pure Fishing, Rapala were not at the Amsterdam fair while other players like yourself, St. Croix, Petitjean, Matagi, Pacific Bay, REC, Harrison, Benecchi, Daiwa were present. It seems that (with the bexception of Daiwa and a few more ) the big corporate world was missing while the "smaller", often family run, quality tackle business and all the emerging new companies (Daiwa itself is famous for its innovation spirit) were eager to mark the moment. Is this perhaps a sign of our time where the "big shots" trust more other channels of communications or is there any other, maybe more simple explanation of this pattern, in your opinion?
I think that many of the "big shots" are more conservative about supporting a new show. For them, with large displays and lots of staff, it can be a very expensive business. Many had also previously exhibited at EFTTEX (European Fishing Tackle Trade Exhibition) in Rome a few weeks earlier and are specifically looking for distributors (which EFTTEX says it delivers). I feel certain that one of these two shows will eventually emerge as the principal showcase for Europe and that in due course the trade will come together at a show that provides for both small and large companies.

• I read with interest the latest TT Survey where it was indicated that Russia and Turkey are today the most interesting markets for expansion while other more "mature" countries are stagnant in growth. On the other side, countries like Ukraine and Turkey with very low wages and strategic geographical position could be seen as an altrenative to China and Asia for manufacturing plants. Rapala, is for instance expanding their operation in Russia while closing down in Ireland. Do you see this pattern, too in other sectors?
I am not really qualified to comment on this. With our manufacturing base primarily in Africa, and our worldwide market, we don’t see any market as stagnant. The industry is very fragmented, and whilst there may be little growth, there are companies coming and going in our sector leaving ways open for established businesses like ourselves who have a pedigree of high quality and great service.

• Let's talk about your fly rods. When did you start making them? And where?
We started some years ago, worked very closely with an American company on design, and then had our rods made in the Far East. We have developed them since then, with the help of some very famous fly fishers from around the world.

• The fly rods also come in 4 and even 6 pieces (salmon series). Clearly, this is aimed at travelling anglers. How do these rods perform in term of sensitivity and how did you diminish the drawback of so many pieces?
Actually, the 4 piece rods are not specifically designed as travel rods (we have 6 piece rods for that, including our salmon rod). It is simply a matter of convenience. They fit in car boots easier, they are easier to carry around generally, and with the high quality materials these days, there is little if any diminished performance. Indeed, I would challenge anyone to even notice the number of pieces when they are fishing. Having said that, our very inexpensive 2 piece Classic FM rods perform exceptionally well.

• Who is designing the rods and which blanks do you use? Do all sections make use of a combination of graphite and titanium?
Nowadays, the blanks are unique to us. They are IM6 graphite (which doesn’t break as readily as IM8) and we have a series which includes a titanium finish which adds to the toughness whilst reducing diameter and weight. Design is a a combined effort by our in-house team of fly fishing experts, and a team of Fulling Mill friends around the world.

• The price of these fly rods (about $110 - $280 ; $450 for the 15' , double handed salmon fly rod) is really affordable to many anglers and yet the quality is reportedly equal to higher priced fly rods. Which market are you targeting and how would you explain the price difference?Our rods are probably not expensive enough to be fashionable! But then, we think that many rods on the market today are grossly over priced, and bought mainly because people think they must be better at that price. We know what our rods cost to make, we know what we must sell it for, and we set our prices accordingly. We think that some other brands might be pricing up rather than down. It is my opinion that rod prices appear to double with every 10% improvement in the fittings. Our fittings are good quality, but we don’t use nickel silver and special engravings! My experience is that fish are never impressed by trappings of wealth, and the people who are tend to buy a so-called quality brand because they can show it off to others. I am afraid that I am not particularly impressed with something because it cost more!

• What kind of warranty do they have?
Lifetime original owner who (currently) would pay UK£20 to cover the handling and postage charges for each section of a rod that is returned to us for repair or replacement.

• What about your fly lines, leaders and tippets? are they made in-house?
Some knotted leaders are made in house using our own brand tippet. There are few manufacturers who can make good fly lines and tippet and we have searched those out to supply us with what we want and to our design. Our tapered leaders are unique, and perform as well or better than a knotted leader might.

• Are you planning to enter the fly reel business in the future?
Possibly...

• Finally, can you give us some suggestions for fresh water areas suitable for fly fishing in Kenia or Africa that you like? I personally recommend the Drakensberg mountains in south Africa but I am not an expert....
Africa – a huge continent with an abundance of fresh water fishing. Black bass abound everywhere, tiger fish are fantastic on fly. Really, to recommend anywhere is like saying that a particular beat of a particular river in a particular country in Europe is the place to go. There are so many places. In Kenya there are lakes stocked by helicopter with fast growing and strong rainbows high up on Mt Kenya (14,000ft), rivers in the highland areas stocked with both rainbows and browns (and reproducing naturally now) and it is relatively easy to obtain permits and information about these from the Kenya Wildlife Services. As a member of two excellent fly fishing clubs in Kenya, I am blessed and privelidged to have access to what I think is some of the finest fishing in the world. Not that the fish are huge, or in some cases even plentiful. No, it is the wonderful scenery, the clean air, and the wildness that captivates me. And some fish too, of course, sometimes quite big too!

• Thank you Mr Unwin. Would you like to add anything else for our readers at the end of our interview?
Thank you for the opportunity you have given me to talk a little about my company. I hope that the main thing that readers might take away with them is that I love my business, but could not do it if I thought that we could not supply really high quality products. These days it is almost impossible to pick up a magazine or look on the web without seeing somebody offering something that they claim is better than anything else. These are mostly just words. I stand by my product 100%. What you buy is what we at Fulling Mill use. If it fails (and that is seldom) we will put it right. We listen very carefully to our customers around the world, and we make changes based on feedback and actual fishing conditions and performance. It gives me huge satisfaction to know that in some small way I am sharing in the adventures of countless fly fishers around the world, and they are using exactly the same Fulling Mill products that I would choose.

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